A Former Off-Grid, Homeschooled Child’s Thoughts on the Naugler Family

CC image courtesy of Flickr, Paul Jerry.

The following post is written by Gary. The author’s name has been changed to ensure anonymity. “Gary” is a pseudonym. Also by Gary on HA: “The Deep Drone of Unseen Cicadas” and “Hurts Me More Than You: Gary’s Story”.

To begin with I would like to state several things.

1. I do not know the Naugler family. I have never met them. All of the following observations are based solely from the information this family posted, publicly, on their blog and public Facebook page.

2. Much of the “information” being spread about the internet in regards to this family is clearly, factually incorrect. This can be seen through simple observation of posts on the family’s public Facebook page and blog.

Most of the information people are referencing is based only from the first few photos and/or posts on the family’s blog and Facebook page. For instance, the cover photo used in much of media coverage is clearly (based off the age of the youngest child featured) taken as much as two years ago. Another instance would be the “cabin”. When the family first moved to the property they did, indeed, have a cabin of sorts. In reality it was a small prefab home bought on credit. But this cabin was later returned. Where it stood is now a concrete slab, bare and seen in photos as a resting place for a heard of goats.

Since then the family has lived in a series of small open air shacks and tents — none of which even have 4 walls, windows, a solid floor, or a working door. This as well is clearly visible from photos publicly posted.

3. The dates of the photos posted on the family’s pages do not necessarily correlate to the date the photos were actually taken. Once again, this can be established by noting certain structures (or lack there of) on the land, the ages of the youngest children, and the time of year the photos were taken. Thus, no reliable timeline of any kind as to the health and welfare of the children, at the time they were taken, can be established by the online information. The most recent group photo I could find (once again based from the ages of the children) might have been taken as long ago as last fall.

4. The situation at the homestead, based off the photos and posts available, seems to be getting worse. There are several reasons for this, and they have to do with the effects of animals (goats, chickens, dogs, etc.) and human habitation on a spot of land. In the beginning the pond appears to be a real pond (turtles and fish are pictured), by the (apparently) latest photos, the pond has turned into a filthy mud pit devoid of most life. This is the natural consequence of animal dung running off the surrounding landscape with the rain and melting snow, the traffic of people, animals, etc.

This same trend can be seen in the yards and areas surrounding the shack. At first the dirt is held down by plant roots, but as the small trees were killed by the goats or chopped down to form fences, the dirt turned to mud. This mud gets mixed with the animal dung (goat, chicken and dog) and gets tracked by the bare feet of the children over every surface of the homestead. This state of affairs is clearly visible in the photos.

With this comes water from rain running straight off into the pond, carrying with it animal dung and any and all other forms of filth, from oil and gasoline from the generator, to cooking and food waste. This means that any photos taken at the beginning of this homestead experience simply can not be relied on to show the true living conditions of the current day.

We do see some photos of a shallow ditch covered by a few muddy boards, that was dug in an attempt to keep this filthy rain run off from flooding the shack.

5. These conditions will continue to get worse unless there are major and lasting changes to every aspect of the family’s food preparation area, sleeping area etc. The mud and run-off water will get worse as the hillside continues to break apart. The pond will become even worse of a health hazard as it fills with more animal dung and garbage. The structures, such as they are, will begin to mold and rot from the ground up. (This is, in fact, based off photos. It is already taking place).

6. I am not going to talk here about the family’s religious beliefs, their choice to un-school or homeschool their children, their practice of not providing their children with immunizations, Social Security numbers, or birth certificates.

All those issues are, in my opinion, secondary to the very real and pressing issues of the health and physical safety of these ten children.

Despite all the media coverage to the contrary, that does seem, based off all information available, to be the actual and factual reason the children were taken from their parents.

So without further ado, here is a bit of what is going on.

*****

My family is sick.. We never get sick, its been nearly 3 years since we have been sick…But I think the children ate some bad food. ~lesson learned, ask mom before you eat something.. 7 of 10 children down. Olivia, being the nurturing one that she is, is taking care of everyone with me. She is bringing water to them, making sure they are all cared for..She has been on top of it not missing a step even when I stopped to feed the baby. Quinten made up everyone’s spot.. .. ,,,,at least they like to sleep outside. ( true campers!) But no one is up for roasted marshmallows

-Direct quote from the “Blessed Little Homestead” Facebook page, posted on July 24th 2014

In the photo (which got over 20 likes) we see multiple children, dressed in dirty shorts, sprawled on mounds of blankets in the dirt around an open air fire pit.

They are obviously sick:

Food poisoning. Or was it? They, “the children” had eaten some unidentified “food” with out asking their mother if it was safe to eat.

Was it some of the wild mushrooms featured in many photos on the “Blessed Little Homestead” (BLH) Facebook page?

Was it rotting left over food sitting in any number of the unwashed and grime incrusted Tupperware and plastic containers lying scattered around the open air “kitchen” (really a stack of bricks filled with open flame and topped with rusty and filth incrusted wire racks)?

Was it Salmonella?

Let us see if this description matches some of the living environments seen on the BLH Facebook page.

Food: Contaminated eggs, poultry, meat, unpasteurized milk or juice, cheese, contaminated raw fruits and vegetables (alfalfa sprouts, melons), spices, and nuts

Animals and their environment: Particularly reptiles (snakes, turtles, lizards), amphibians (frogs), birds (baby chicks) and pet food and treats.

There are picture after picture after picture of small children, covered in grime, holding and handling:

  • Snakes.
  • Toads.
  • Baby Chicks.
  • Turtles.
  • The list goes on and on.

There is photo after photo of a “homestead” coated inches deep in mud, and with up to eight goats roughly a dozen chickens, two cats and seven dogs running loose around and in the shacks that serve as “home” for this family, one can know, with absolute mathematical certainty,  that this “mud” that coats everything form the children to the floors and walls in a persistent layer of grime, is at least in a significant part, animal dung.

So, was it Salmonella?

Was it E-Coli?

Was it poison mushrooms cooked up by an unknowing child in a grimy pot over an open fire? (The kids, after all, are shown doing the “cooking”, and the mother brags in several posts about how “the kids do almost all the cooking for the family.”

We don’t know. The mother doesn’t know either. And that’s a big problem when it comes to the health and safety of the 10 children living in filth and squalor in a 380 ft. three sided shack.

*****

But what makes you an expert you may ask?

Well.

I grew up in a similar environment.

My family bought 12 acres of land, 50 miles from the nearest town, in the North West back in 1982. We spent that first summer living in an army tent. During that first summer my father and mother and older brother built a 20 by 15 foot log cabin. That’s 300 square feet.

By snow fall we had a insulated, steel roofed, 300 square foot log home, it had a real cinderblock foundation, it had 3 double pained insulated windows, and it had a barrel stove.

We did not have electric, we did not have a well, we did not have indoor plumbing. Internet and cell phones did not exist in 1982. The nearest phone was at a neighbors home over three miles away. Then over the next 3 summers my father and mother built a 8 room, two story, glass windowed and hard wood floored, log home. It has a stone fireplace, a full basement, and a root cellar and a pantry.

They also built: an animal shed, a shop, a tool shed, and a woodshed.

During those years we became a working “homestead”, including 4 goats, two dozen chickens, geese, a small horse, a dog, 35 rabbits and two cats. We had a large garden as well. During none of this did we ever have: a well, a phone, air conditioning or refrigeration. We lit our home first with kerosene lamps and candles and then later with propane lanterns. We cooked our meals first on a wood stove, and later on a propane stove. We gathered our water from a local public well. (for drinking) and from a system of rain barrels, (for bathing and watering the garden.) After about 10 years we hooked up solar power and ran a system of electric lights.

We were (and my parents still are) “off the grid”:

  • 33 years with no well.
  • 33 years with no internet.
  • 33 years with no indoor plumbing.
  • 33 years with no eclectic grid hook up.
  • 33 years of gardening and eating wild game.
  • 33 years of gathering drinking water at a local public well.

All of us children were raised, from 1982 till 2013 when the youngest left home, in a true “homestead” environment.

We lived it.

I lived it.

For the first 18 years of my life.

I ran free in the woods, home schooled only 4 months out of the year, much of it self directed learning. I milked goats, I hunted wild game, I tilled that garden by hand, and toted water from rain barrels to water the plants. I was barefoot all summer long, from May to October. I fished in the river, at the age of 9, with no adult supervision.

It was, quite literal, “homestead” living.

It really was.

However.

We had a real house, insulated, enclosed on all 6 sides, and heated. We had a fully enclosed, 7 foot deep, ventilated outhouse, with a real toilet seat and a locking door located a sanitary distance form the house. We had bedrooms, with real beds and real mattresses, for the children, one for the girls, one for the boys, (bunk beds with your brothers can be great!) We had a bathtub. We were kept clean, very clean, by the constant work and insistence of my mother. Our farm animals were kept separate from our yard and our home by fences.

Even our yard was clean, swept with a push broom till it was smooth hard packed earth.

We were healthy.

Our meals were cooked in spotless pans and served on real ceramic plates at a real table, (solid oak, passed down from Grandpa). We had a “real” Homeschooling curriculum for all 12 grades (sure, it said electricity was a mystery and people road dinosaurs like horses just 4,000 years ago, but what can you do?)

The family of 12 (soon to be 13) living on the “Blessed Little Homestead” have none of those things.

I have been on their Facebook page.

I have looked through years of photographs.

I have read post after post, on the public Facebook page and on their public blog.

Their living conditions are among the worst I have ever seen. Ever.

My family was not the only one “homesteading” in this remote area of the Pacific North West. I knew over a dozen families living in nearly the same conditions as my self. That is: living on clean, well organized and maintained farms and homesteads, usually with out electric or plumbing, often home schooled, and deeply conservative. I knew a family living in a teepee for two years. I knew a small commune of three families living in a communal yurt. And I never, ever, saw living conditions even half as dangerous, anarchistic or filthy as what is shown on the “Blessed Little Homestead” site and Facebook page.

This family isn’t “homesteading”, they are, for all practical purposes, homeless.

This family does not have the cabin featured in some of the photographs, it was bought on credit and later “returned”.

This family was living, twelve deep, in a tree sided shack. The floor is covered in dirt and filth, the children are as well. The shack they sleep in is built from old pallets and two by fours. I won’t bore you with the details of structural integrity, but let’s just say that I am very surprised the shack did not collapse under last winters several feet of snow (photos of which are on the BLH public Facebook page) and kill or injure the 12 family members huddled inside.

(Note how the two by fours are driven, with out foundation, strait into the dirt, and how the load bearing single two by fours in the front of the shack are spaced 6 feet apart.)

I could go on for pages about the myriad dangers from accident and infection and disease these children were being exposed to on a daily basis. I could mention the animal dung covering the whole area in a layer of slime, pounded into a grimy coating by the bare feet of ten children, draining with the rain and melting snow, down hill from the “homestead” into the pond that has now, after several years of occupation, apparently gone from being home to fish and turtles (in earlier photos) to being a mud pit doubling as an open sewer choked with animal dung.

I could mention the generator and gasoline cans, (visible in several photos) located right next to the shack ( there is an extreme danger of carbon monoxide poisoning killing the entire family, in fact, the only reason I suspect this hasn’t happened yet is the fact the dwelling is not enclosed on all four sides).

I could mention the filthy conditions of the “cooking area”, including dirt encrusted plastic cups, drifting smoke and food being eaten by the grimy unwashed hands of children as young as 4 who cooked their own meals, over the open flames. (also clearly visible in photos on the B.L.H. public Facebook page.)

I could mention the photos of dog bites, wasp stings, scrapes, cuts, and bruises.

I could mention that the BLH blog links to articles about how Tetanus shots aren’t needed as long as the:  “wound bleeds, cus Tetanus can’t live in oxygen and there is oxygen in your blood”    (I kid you not).

I could mention the  fact that with out any doubt what so ever, this “homestead” also smells like an open sewer.

It does.

I know because I grew up on a farm/homestead.

I know because you simply can’t have 8 goats, 7 dogs, two cats, a dozen chickens and twelve people living loose around a muddy pond in the Kentucky summer heat with no running water and not have it smell so rancid that it could be smelled half a mile away.

It’s impossible.

This has been framed as a “off the grid” issue. It is not. “Off the grid” does not mean, by default: dangerous, filthy, ignorant of basic food preparation and safety, anti Government and anti documentation. “Off the Grid” living can be done safely, cleanly, and in full compliance with all local laws and regulations (in many states). I know. I lived it.

This has been framed as a homeschool issue.

It is not.

Kentucky has very open homeschooling laws. It’s legal. Heck, “un-schooling” is legal there too.

The children were taken because it was unsafe. VERY unsafe, not because they were homeschooled.

This, surprisingly, has not been overly framed as a religious issue, at least not yet.

But this isn’t about homeschooling, parents rights, “off the grid living” “government control”, “erosion of our right to do what we please” etc.

It isn’t.

It is about the fact that the conditions at this particular site, in this particular case, with this particular family, where absolutely horrifyingly dangerous, unsanitary, and unsafe on multiple levels. This isn’t hearsay or supposing.

This is clearly visible in dozens on dozens of posts and photos posted publicly by the family themselves.

Quite frankly, I am surprised all the children made it out alive.

344 comments

  • I live in NJ, and we bought a shed a few years back a 12×8′ with vinyl siding, a pitched shingled roof and 2×4 less then 19″ on center double sill plates with two windows and well made barn style doors for like 2k, I remember at the time they made them up to around 24×16′ with even more windows and you could get actual steel doors for like 5k, a couple of them on a good concrete slab and finished with hi density insulation and drywall, plus a proper floor over the plywood subfloor and painted with in wall electricity, additional inside walls and in wall electric oil radiators (modern kind)and a proper bathroom, ‘might’ if your handy set you back an additional 15k, 25k total is not bad for a REAL house.

    • The had a shed they were living it it only cost $6,500 but they couldn’t afford it so it was repossessed. It wasn’t bad, it had real walls, a stable floor and roof and even sleeping lofts. Sadly a shed was better than the shack they are living in now.

  • Been reading through this article, and all the related posts. All of this has the flavor of another well known story – The Glass Castle, a memoir written by Jeanette Walls. This, just as her story, has nothing to do with homesteading or any other lifestyle choice, and everything to do two adults (sorry but they can NOT be called parents, that’s an insult to actual parents) not wanting to be responsible. Zero accountability, zero consequences is what the two adults are striving for; and all housing, nourishing, educating, and providing decisions made by these two, for themselves and all the subsequent prodigy reflects that. It is childish desire, unrealistic, and shows a lack of psychological development on the the part of the adults – and therefore i have no issue with the children being removed from them. It’s is a shame that the two adults will never suffer the full consequences of their choices, but instead their children will pay the price for their immaturity, and selfishness. These are disrespectful, lazy adults, disgustingly wallowing in their own filth – and they want to raise a next generation to be just like them? I’m happy they won’t get the “freedom” to do that.

    • I agree and I also think it includes elements of “Mosquito Coast”. I also noted the similarities between “The Glass Castle” and the Naugler family. Only I think that the Walls’ truly believe in educating their children. I also mentioned that none of the Walls’ children sought to recreate their childhood experience with their own children. The closing chapter made that clear.

      Jo-Ann Fiscus is Nicole Naugler’s mother and it doesn’t sound as though she completely approves of her daughter’s activities, but if she doesn’t tacitly endorse them, she will entirely lose the limited access she is granted. Mr. Naugler noted that they have emotional support from HIS father and his wife.

      Jo-ann Fiscus Just so you all know, since you want lots of info, I am Nicoles mom. I send clothes to the kids every now and then, send birthday cards, things for Christmas, (I made Nicole an afghan a few years ago , and toys and clothes for the kids. I do not know what the other grandparents do.

      • God bless you! I refuse to judge their situation I don’t know them personally, but i will pray for all of you. For safty, Heath, and happiness.

      • Don't Worry About It

        I’m really close with one of Joe Nauglers biological sons… He hasn’t lived with Joe since he was 4 years old because Joe shipped him off to his uncles in New England. Joe raped, beat, and nearly killed X. He put the fear of life into him… So bad that when it came to sitting on the stand with Joe accross the floor he had a panick attack froze up and couldn’t speak. This guy is not innocent. He made X piss and shit in a cardboard box, put him in a closet when he had friends over, scare the living shit out of him to the point where he would piss and shit his pants. Maybe it’s not “wrong” for him to live this way. But this guy needs to sit the rest of his life in prison.

      • DWAI – I’m not posting in support of the Naugler’s. I should have put Jo-Ann Fiscus’s post in quotation marks.

        I’m inclined to believe Alex simply due to something he said about being in the same courtroom as Joe.

        After all, even if someone can’t recall specific events, the memory of how they FEEL about someone sticks with them. I can’t find the article right now, but Alex commented about how he could barely look at his father and he was feeling frightened and panicky in his presence.

        The statute of limitations is long over for Alex to be able to formally charge his father with sexual abuse, but I’m glad he was able to be there to testify.

  • Awesome write up!

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      This write-up (and the similar one from the Solomon Islands MK) have weight. These write-ups and analyses are from those who HAVE been in third world or frontier situations and can analyze it from known experience with hardship. And even by those standards the Nauglers fall far short.

      Do you think these MKs and Homesteaders and Off-Gridders weighing in with observations and analyses are why we haven’t seen the barrage of Gubmint Conspiracy and Sovereign Citizen types defending the Nauglers like they did in the first HA article/thread?

  • I cannot believe the gofundme is still up! These people need serious help, not wads of cash tossed in their laps. http://www.gofundme.com/tz4xng

    But it was comforting to read that hslda is no longer providing their services 😉

    http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/state-keeps-control-of-kentucky-homeschool-kids/

    • Just wait until Pace Ellsworth finds out that HE is responsible for paying taxes on the money that is donated. He set it up, he’s regarded as the recipient.

      He may this already, but I wonder if he informed the Naugler’s that there will be taxes owed on money donated to them.

      • I’m not sure the money is taxable. I think these are gifts, and gifts received are not subject to tax unless the gift giver received some sort of goods or services. They will probably need the full $45k and then some for their lawyers. Hopefully they are cooperating but they don’t seem the cooperating types.

      • Even money that is gifted to you from your parents is taxable if it’s over $14,000. In addition, if PayPal (for example) is used to raise more than $20,000 OR 200 or more individuals use it to donate to an individual, a 1099-K is generated. That will go to the IRS and the person in charge of the account will receive it as well.

        Someone will have to pay taxes on the money given or raised.

        Gifts that don’t count
        Some transfers of money are never considered to be gifts, no matter the amount.

        For purposes of the gift tax, it’s not a gift if:

        It’s given to a husband or wife who is a U.S. citizen. Special rules apply to spouses who are not U.S. citizens.
        It’s paid directly to an educational or medical institution for someone’s medical bills or tuition expenses. (It doesn’t have to be a child, or even a relative, for this exception.)

        Does the gift recipient ever have to pay gift tax?
        If the donor does not pay the tax, the IRS may collect it from you.

        However, most donors who can afford to make gifts large enough to be subject to gift taxes can also afford to pay the tax on the gifts.

        Plus this from the IRS:

        http://www.irs.gov/uac/General-FAQs-on-New-Payment-Card-Reporting-Requirements

        You may be correct, they won’t be taxed on it, but I suspect that due to all the publicity and the money raised, they will owe taxes to the state of Kentucky and to the US government. They may wish to pretend that they don’t use government services, but they drive on the roads, are protected by the military, etc.

      • I’m a tax accountant. The gift tax is paid by the person giving the gift not the person receiving the gift. A parent giving $15k to a kid would pay tax on the $1k over the exclusion but there is an estate and gift tax credit so no tax would be paid until the parent gives somewhere around $5 million. If a blogger gets paypal payments from readers, that’s income because the blogger is providing a service or selling a product. The Naughlers are not being paid for anything they have done so I don’t believe it is taxable to them.

        As a consolation the num nuts who are giving them money don’t get to take a deduction. Contributions to help specific individuals are not tax deductible.

      • Well that’s a ridiculous loophole big enough for many many con artists to drive through. How depressing.

        No, the inability to deduct the money doesn’t make me feel any better.

        Clearly I should stop working, set up a fake pet rescue and watch the ill-gotten untaxable gains rolls in.

  • You know in looking through their blog, Gary is absolutely correct in that things took a downward spiral once they moved to that land and the prefab shed was sent back or taken back. Prior to that, they appeared by pictures to be doing fairly ok. Kids were clean, smiling, had a home. They took numerous trips. There are many pics of science experiments the kids did. Pictures of books galore. You could see a true environmental learning experience taking place. And the followers on the blog loved it. Then things went south after getting the land and prefab shed. And then the train completely derailed it appears. I don’t know if they had exhausted all the help they had previously received from Churches or what. They just seemed to have lost it. Then their posts were of filthy situations. Hazardous situations. I know some of the accidents happened prior to them moving there. But things appeared to get so desperate. She even posted pics of her delivering the last baby in the tent/shack. Very explicit with the kids right there helping and seeing everything. Is this wrong? Most of us would say yes but according to their lifestyle it’s perfectly normal. So whoever said no telling what those kids saw being in 1 room together- I’m sure they saw plenty. How will CPS handle the subject of them possibly witnessing their parents in the act of making a baby? Those are areas they don’t take lightly. How will their choice of lifestyle affect the decision of them getting their children back? I would bet that if, and when, they get them back permanently- they will probably leave the state of KY. That is if they get them back. But I can understand their followers finding nothing wrong with how they lived up until that point. The problem with social media is that everything gets immediate attention and folks get hypersensitive about stuff before seeing all the facts. Of course by now, actually 2 days after the Court date, this is old news to our local news channels. More murders in Louisville have taken place. Regardless I feel so bad for those children. They have been separated. They don’t deserve that. They know nothing but to love and support their parents. Thats what kids do. Such a sad situation. These kids have been weighing heavy on my heart and mind. I hope the best solution is reached. If they aren’t returned to their parents, I pray that there is someone out there willing to take them all.

    • Agreed! I could find more empathy for these people if they were just honest about their lives rather than spinning some story of off grid living. The most disturbing thing in all of this is the woman never smiles. I can’t one picture of her smiling. It’s like this man has brainwashed her or something. And they’ve always struggled financially from the beginning (according to her blog post about Alex and what happened to him).

    • I agree too, this is a horrible situation for children to be in. many homeschoolers and homesteaders have been chiming with their experiences. It seem that even with harsh living conditions of the range that many families have done better than the Nauglers. I am wondering of Joe and Nicole might have serious mental problems? Especially from childhood that were never diagnosed?

      • I am no shrink, but if you listen to the tapes posted on the fundraising site, when Nicole Naugler is arguing with the sheriff, her speech sounds pressured and a little flighty, like someone who is manic. I think you may be onto something there.

      • Or abused. Stockholm Syndrome, if you will. So was Nicole and Joe both working outside the home at one point and when one of them lost their job (versus left it because they were ready to take the next step and had the resources/money to do so) when it became quite disturbing?

        Did one of the children become ill along the way and that led to the dominoes falling?

        I both feel badly for and encouraged by Alex. It took real courage for him to travel to Kentucky to discuss his father in a courthouse. I hope he does well as he matures. 19 is a tough age.

      • I really believe that they both have some serious mental health issues. In the time I have known the Naugler’s, Nicole has went from being a hardcore Mormon, to a polygamist (she wanted “sister wives”), then she became “Amish” and began wearing “head coverings” that she thought made her look more “Amish” and Joe grew a beard to look “Amish”. Then they decided they were bee keepers. Then they became homesteaders and Nicole’s started wearing dreadlocks and they claiming that they are all about love and peace. Joe claims to anyone who is within earshot that his IQ is 175. These two must have did some drugs or something they just fried their brains!!

      • @Jeff Thomas – Wow. That’s sad to read and must be very confusing for the kids. I find it funny that they decided they were Amish – you can only leave, never join. I didn’t notice any Langstrom, Warre or other top-bar hives at the web site but I wasn’t looking too closely. You would have thought that would be something they COULD do with some degree of success and a smidgen of luck.

        IQ of 175 – spare me. Either demonstrate it or pipe down.

        Rather than doing drugs it sounds more like one or both ceased taking their prescribed medication(s).

      • Jeff, it’s great getting input from people who knew them. I also have an IQ of 175. That’s according to the self administered tests that were typically sold in the check out line of the grocery store. A test that tells me I’m a genius. I was very happy with that purchase.

        I can see why a sister wife would be appealing to her. Maybe some random other adult could bring some much needed organization and effort to their situation.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        IQ of 175 – spare me. Either demonstrate it or pipe down.

        As a former Kid Genius, I am very familiar with the “Intelligence 18, Wisdom 3” phenomenon. From both outside and inside.

        And one of the side effects is how this IQ 175 guy living in his own filth would snub & denounce my IQ 160 self as Hopelessly Mentally Retarded. (I have run into several intellectual snobs like that; it’s the main reason I want nothing to do with MENSA.)

        “Wile E Coyote… SUPER. GENIUS.”

      • @Headless Unicorn Guy – As someone who still plays RPG, I’m familiar with people like this in character and in person! Plus at my job. Many geniuses, but not always cognizant of their limitations from within and without (themselves).

    • This is a very sad situation. If everything was going well at first and they lost their home and this was the only thing they could figure out to do, it would actually have been better if they just told the truth and admitted they were homeless. Instead she went on and on as if they chose to live like that and bragged about things that, without a doubt, she shouldn’t have. The only thing is, the other issue, and that is Alex. Everything did ‘snowball’ on them, that’s for sure! But there’s no way out now. Sad! I’m still on the kids side though.

  • Oh my, after close to two years, this is the best they can build? They really didn’t plan this well at all.

    C Brown This is a picture of the cabin taken yesterday by a news crew
    C Brown’s photo.

    Before the post goes *poof*, someone asked several good questions.

    J FYou said you will not upgrade your cabin until donations are received and your children are home. Q. If your children don’t come home what will you do with the donations? Q. If you are making other people responsible for paying for the upgrade of your cabin what will you do if they don’t want this responsibility? Q. How can Child Protective Services Give you your children back before you have your cabin rebuilt to their satisfaction? Thank you.

    So, they’ll answer questions but only if they what is being asked. Yeah, that fills me with confidence.

    Blessed Little Homestead
    14 hrs ·

    To my friends: My blog has grown to the size now that I feel I need help managing some of the comments to keep this more like you are guests in my Blessed Little Homestead. If you comment and are mean, accusatory, snarky, troll, or spam I reserve the right to shoo you away. I’ll try to be fair, and sincere questions are fine, but I’m sure some of my helpers will make some mistakes, so sorry in advance. Have fun and let’s keep talking about our homesteading lives and dreams. I’ll share too any news I can on our children and our situation.

    • While they have every right to moderate the comments received on their blog (a public domain which they have created to share with EVERYONE), people who leave the mean, accusatory, snarky comments have a right to leave those comments. If they can’t handle the snarky, mean, whatever comments, perhaps it’s time for them to step away from social media and focus on building their homestead with a 4 walled home so they can get their children back.

      • I agree. If they don’t want to read what the public at large has to say about their behavior, then they shouldn’t make it a public page. Removing what you don’t like, when you’re clearly trying to drum up support, is a way of lying to the public.

      • Disagreed. When you are a guest on somebody’s page, you are on their property, the equivalent of being in their online home. Therefore, no inherent rights apply. However, while the Nauglers have the right to delete anything they want, I do disagree with deleting the questions posed to the Nauglers about the money as they are legitimate.

    • The dad is being defiant and that is consistent with the comments about him being scary and dangerous. He is saying he won’t clean his room until he gets his toys (the kids) back. The judge is going to have none of that. The dad is going to have to prove he has safe and sanitary conditions and that every child has a bed before he comes close to getting the kids back. Meanwhile this is a great opportunity for the kids to see that there is another world out there.

      • Agreed. This judge has a handle on the situation and isn’t going to be bullied (I’d love to see the dad play this game with Judge Judy, who was a family court judge). The children were removed because the parents failed to provide adequate food, housing, protection, and supervision. The worst of those shortfalls have to be remedied before the kids can go back.

  • Someone nailed it in one.

    Z A: telling how criticism was ok when you were raising money, but now that its over– silence the dissent.

    Z A: im pretty tired of people defending potential abusers. theres 2 beds for 12 people. joe threatened neighbors while stealing water. hid the children from authorities and declined to get a lawyer to accompany their interview, wasnt registered to homeschool, multiple reports of neglect to cps over the past few years. made veiled threats of violence to police. and his estranged son was sexually molested by him. there needs to be an investigation. legal protocol was followed.

    • I find the behavior in that first answer to be pretty standard for people set in their ways (be it religion or politics). The Naugler’s are disturbing people. And will use this situation to garner as much attention and donations as possible. Sad really when (in my opinion) there are others out there who deserve the donations more.

      • Well, the family will be in for quite an interesting time when the host company issues the 1099-K early next year. If donors used PayPal that company is required to issue it too (over 200 donations and/or over $20,000).

        That paperwork isn’t solely handed over to the Naugler’s, it’s mailed to the IRS too.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        That paperwork isn’t solely handed over to the Naugler’s, it’s mailed to the IRS too.

        That’s probably when the Sovereign Citizen Manifesto and Religious Persecution spin will kick in.

  • In the spirit of bona fide journalism, I have just talked with a spokesman for the Naugler family and challenged him with several questions. My questions came from reading all the second-hand claims on this blog and others, as well as news sites that have reported on this. Here are some key points, quoted verbatim from the spokesman’s response. If you doubt, go and visit their website and email their spokesman. His email address is right on the page and he got back to me within an hour of my emailing him.

    – They haven’t seen Alex, Joe’s 19-year-old son, in 14 years, and Joe was not charged with any abuse when Joe’s uncle was granted custody of Alex when Alex was 5 years old.

    – In this case, CPS has OK’d the property and the only reason they didn’t return the kids already is because Alex’s testimony gave them the excuse to keep the kids in CPS custody to interview them.

    – The cabin that the Nauglers planned to build anyway this fall will now be built ahead of schedule [because of donations], along with a well and a solar power system so the Nauglers can have running water and electricity and insulated shelter. The cabin will actually be built from a design that the children made together a few months ago.

    – The Nauglers have permission from a number of neighbors to draw water from their wells every few weeks for their needs. The neighbor in question lives a number of miles away from the Naugler property. Joe recently unfriended Lady A. On 5/3, Joe drove to the well on Lady A’s property to draw water from the well. She came out, mad that she was unfriended, and asked Joe to leave. Joe is about to leave, when Lady B (Lady A’s step-mother) comes charging out of the house at Joe, shouting at him. Joe has his son and 2 daughters in the truck. Joe tells his son to go get the gun from the truck (in my opinion, in self-defense), but they all get in the truck and drive away. No water was taken (“stolen”), no death threat, no gun was produced or pointed.

    – They did not submit the form required to tell the state they were homeschooling. I believe they did this on principle, and I personally suppose they were hoping to be overlooked, not wanting their children to be registered in any public school records. As of this day, they have not been reprimanded or fined or anything for not doing so, but they likely will file the necessary form so that they show themselves be responsible in the eyes of the state.

    – They have cellphones, and she runs a business in the town of Radcliff, KY. when she doesn’t have service on the property, she can access the cellular data nearby or in Radcliff or elsewhere. Of course getting a landed satellite subscription or running power and Internet by cable out there would be comparatively astronomical. It’s pretty straightforward. She makes the best of a small connection.

    – They have 3 walls and a metal roof. The tarp that covers the patio can come down to close the structure to the elements if needed. They have a beautifully organized outdoor kitchen and a wood stove, a generator for electricity, and a composting toilet. They have animals, but they are not sleeping in feces.

    – I can’t give a point by point rebuttal of the article at this time. Too much on short notice. One point I’d make is that he’s asking a lot of them since they’ve only been in the property about 18 months, and most of that time they have been struggling to get a great job situation. The author is comparing it to his family, who have been off-grid for 33 years. Hardly a fair comparison. Now, as I said, the cabin should be built in the next few months, it will be 1000+ sq. ft, 2 large bedrooms and insulated everything, solar panels and a new well nearby just for them. They might build another small cabin for their oldest who is turning 17. Give them time to become examples of off-the-grid living.

    • They do not own the land and anything they build is ultimately the responsibility of the landowner. So if it’s not up to code, the land owner can be charged. In addition, anything they do while residing on that land affects the property value. If it’s still mortgaged and it loses some measure of value (as spelled out in the contract), the mortgage company can legally repossess it and evict any occupants.

      At this point in time their names are not listed as the land owner, so they don’t pay taxes. If someone did sell it to them, or signed a contract to sell it to them, there would be a transfer. Why would you continue to pay taxes on property that you’ve sold?

      • Lee, I tracked the owner down it is a company called Kentucky Land Company. They do in house financing so you don’t have to go to a bank. You will find the Gordon Board owns the land and he is the owner of the above mentioned company. So they may or may not be on the land legally. On another web site for home school and homesteading, the webmaster called the company but they refused to discuss it. The address of the property is [EDITED BY MODERATOR]

        Moderation note: We do not allow doxxing in our comment section. Publicly available information is fine and their blogs are open to the world.

      • William – Yes, I know. I called them several days ago to ask if the Naugler’s were their tenants. “No comment” was their reply. I found the address when I looked at the Kentucky business licenses (publicly available information) and matched it to the county property records (publicly available information).

        I agree with the moderators, it’s best not to post it here for the kids’ sake. I don’t give a rat’s derriere if it makes the adults lives more difficult or not. I’m not favorably impressed with Joseph or Nicole.

        Legally, the owners are responsible for the property – and the company/Gordon Board pay the county taxes on the property as they hold the note and are the owners of record. The N. family don’t own it and there are clauses in any land or home purchase that state if the buyer doesn’t maintain the condition of the place to the seller’s standard, they can repossess it. If it loses value due to neglect, destruction, etc., you can lose it entirely. Even if you haven’t missed a payment. That’s also why they require you carry insurance in case of fire and other things.

    • My parents had our first, insulated, glass windowed, wood floored cabin built in under 90 days.
      All with nothing more than a come-along, a tool box of normal tools and an Alaskan saw mill.
      It was 300 square feet and air tight, with a real foundation and double panes of glass on the windows.

      They had only one child old enough to help at the time.

      Tell me again how a year and a half to build a decent structure isn’t enough time?

      I would also like to add that perhaps this “family spokesperson” get their stories strait with the info the parents have posted on their blog and Facebook in the past…….you know, for consistency sake, because several of the things you claim the “spokes person” told you, including the incident with the gun, are in direct conflict with posts posted by the parents in the last few days.

      One final thing………..what is their response to the reality (publicly admitted by the mother on the BLH Facebook page) that the father called his neighbor a “c***” in front of his children?

      Also curious to know what the mother meant when she called the Sherifs Deputy a “whore of the state” in the adio before screamed at him repeatedly to shoot and kill her while resisting arrest?

      None of these things are open to interpretation, as they were publicly admitted to and publicly posted by the parents themselves.

      Just wondering.

      • “what is their response to the reality (publicly admitted by the mother on the BLH Facebook page) that the father called his neighbor a “c***” in front of his children?”

        I missed that, how utterly vile.

      • I’ve seen a girl scout troop build a better structure on a weekend campout.

      • I think several creative 8 years olds have done better work than the adults in the Naugler household.

    • – You didn’t mention a floor, so I’ll surmise it lacks one.
      – As Joe didn’t file a police report at the time of the incident, or call the police, I doubt that he’s telling the truth. But you do confirm that he DID tell his son to get the gun from the truck.
      – There was a mobile home on the land at one time, so presumably there was a well or water available.
      – Relying upon your neighbor’s largesse for water for your family of 9+ AND your animals for more than a year is simply ridiculous.
      – I’ve read reports that the Naugler’s obtained and lived within a mobile home on that property, but clearly it’s no longer there. Repossessed? If not repossessed, then abysmal planning because they did NOT build a suitable dwelling.
      – There were posts by the Naugler’s about sleeping in the van and having to run it to keep the kids warm.
      – No, it doesn’t take 18 months to build a small cabin and there are photos of the family shopping at hardware stores (Home Depot) as well as using items they have found.
      – If they were serious about it, I have little reason to believe they wouldn’t have received help building a small sturdy cabin by members of various communities (homeschoolers, LDS, neighbours, etc.).
      – You qualify the situation by stating, “they have been struggling to get a GREAT job situation” (emphasis mine). So that implies that jobs have been turned down or weren’t applied for as being not good enough.
      – Before embarking upon this change of lifestyle, it would have been wise if they had saved up their money to deal with the inevitable problems that always arise in life.
      – The author’s family accomplished a great deal in their first SUMMER at their homestead.

      “We spent that first summer living in an army tent. During that first summer my father and mother and older brother built a 20 by 15 foot log cabin. That’s 300 square feet.

      By snow fall we had a insulated, steel roofed, 300 square foot log home, it had a real cinderblock foundation, it had 3 double pained insulated windows, and it had a barrel stove.”

      Compare and contrast to the Naugler’s accomplishments (epic fail).

      • brbr2424 – I’m uncertain why this is in reply to my post, it doesn’t seem to fit well. Did you intend to reply to proud2b4family? I agree with your post, by the way!

        Luis Lang asking for money for his medical care is akin to Alisa Zinovievna O’Connor (nee: Rosenbaum {Ayn Rand}) collecting Social Security and Medicare.

        An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand’s law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand’s behalf she secured Rand’s Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O’Connor (husband Frank O’Connor).

      • Lee, I don’t know where my comment belongs. I got lost. I really can’t stand the willful ignorance of blue collar low information Republican voters when it comes to Obamacare. Both Bette from Spokane and Luis Lang would be Obamacare winners if people want to see it as winners and losers. Bette and her husband were smokers and her husband was a roofer until he fell off a roof and broke his back and became disabled. Luis Lang was a handyman. He was probably up and down ladders, swinging hammers, playing with electricity and power tools. Never mind that his job made him high risk for injury and health problems but he was a smoker with diabetes that was uncontrolled. He should have jumped at the chance to pay for insurance at the same rate as someone with a desk job without chronic health problems.

    • Those are certainly grandiose plans. Just because $45k came in to gofundme over 3 days doesn’t mean they will be bringing in $15k a day in donations. I think the donations have peaked and people are moving on to donating to Luis Lang who doesn’t believe in no stinkin Obamacare, and now that that he has a serious medical condition has found that he has no bootstraps of his own on which to pull himself up with. They will be lucky if that covers their legal bills. If they are smart, they will start cooperating and taking the advice of their lawyers and the people at social services.

    • That’s PR damage control at its finest right there! Lol I was genuinely flabbergasted at so many people saying how the pics don’t depict squalor or others nothing wrong with this whole situation. Then calling their glorified shanty/stick hut a cabin. Lol The pic of the kids sick laying on dirt is sad and heart breaking. I seriously wonder about people sometimes. I didn’t think it took a rock scientist to see that isn’t normal for an adult much less children.

  • Re: fleas and ticks. There are quite a large number of unpleasant zoonotic diseases this family may experience. Cryptosporidium, for example. Cat scratch fever is another.

    Here’s some carried by ticks in that region of the country:

    Borrelia miyamotoi infection has recently been described as a cause of illness in the U.S. It is transmitted by the blacklegged tick (Ixodes scapularis) and has a range similar to that of Lyme disease.

    Ehrlichiosis is transmitted to humans by the lone star tick (Ambylomma americanum), found primarily in the southcentral and eastern U.S.

    Heartland virus infection has been identified in eight patients in Missouri and Tennessee as of March 2014. Studies suggest that Lone Star ticks may transmit the virus. It is unknown if the virus may be found in other areas of the U.S.

    Lyme disease is transmitted by the blacklegged tick (Ixodes scapularis) in the northeastern U.S. and upper midwestern U.S. and the western blacklegged tick (Ixodes pacificus) along the Pacific coast.

    Rocky Mountain spotted fever (RMSF) is transmitted by the American dog tick (Dermacentor variabilis), Rocky Mountain wood tick (Dermacentor andersoni), and the brown dog tick (Rhipicephalus sangunineus) in the U.S. The brown dog tick and other tick species are associated with RMSF in Central and South America.

    STARI (Southern tick-associated rash illness) is transmitted via bites from the lone star tick (Ambylomma americanum), found in the southeastern and eastern U.S.

    Tularemia is transmitted to humans by the dog tick (Dermacentor variabilis), the wood tick (Dermacentor andersoni), and the lone star tick (Amblyomma americanum). Tularemia occurs throughout the U.S.

    Let’s not forget about Lyme disease and Hanta viruses!

    Hookworms are terrible things and can particularly impair children.

    You can become infected with hookworms by coming into contact with soil that contains their eggs or larvae. The larvae enter your skin, travel through your bloodstream, and enter your lungs. They also travel to your windpipe and are carried to your small intestine when you swallow. Fully grown, they can live in your small intestine for a year or more before passing through your feces.

    If you do experience symptoms, they generally start with itchiness and a small rash caused by an allergic reaction as the larvae enters your skin. This is generally followed by diarrhea as the hookworms grow in your intestine. Other symptoms include:

    abdominal pain
    colic (cramping and excessive crying in infants)
    intestinal cramps
    nausea
    fever
    blood in your stool
    appetite loss
    itchy rash

    If you have a hookworm infection that lasts a long time, you could become anemic. Anemia is characterized by a low red blood cell count, which can lead to heart failure in severe cases. Anemia results from hookworms feeding on your blood. You’re more at risk of having severe anemia if you also don’t eat well, are pregnant, or have malaria.

    Other complications that can develop from these infections include nutritional deficiencies and a condition known as ascites. This condition is caused by serious protein loss and results in fluid buildup in your abdomen.

    Children who have frequent hookworm infections can experience slow growth and mental development from losing a lot of iron and protein.

    So, when Nicole posts about how the kids have fleas (because the dogs haven’t been treated and they haven’t built something (anything!) that has a HOPE of keeping unwanted things at bay, this is potentially a big problem. Particularly for the children.

    • Excellent points. BTW, fleas cause tapeworms. If one of those kids should swallow a flea (very possible as they are tiny and with all those animals, there has to be a ton of them) the kid could also get tapeworms.

      • I know – but tapeworms are fairly rare in humans because you DO have to swallow an infected flea so I left it out. I shouldn’t have but it was one of those, “No, surely not THAT” moments.

        Hookworms are far more likely and they’re terribly damaging too.

    • I was thinking about their “anti-vaccine” stance, which at this point is probably just another cover. They can’t afford vaccines and don’t have insurance. So that’s probably the real reason. However, they have lots of animals and I’m willing to be their dogs have not been vaccinated for rabies. The children haven’t had tetanus shots- so if they are cut by a rusty nail or saw- that’s another huge threat to them. I have had lyme disease (I live in Maryland). I caught it when I saw the bull’s eye and went on antibiotics, but suffered with fever, chattering teeth and joint pain before the antibiotics kicked in. If left untreated it can kill you. So this is really a concern to these children. These parents don’t have access or even the intention of getting them medical care when necessary. With 10.5 children- what is the likelihood that none of them will ever be exposed to ticks, while sleeping outdoors and playing with animals? The gravity of this situation is just horrible. E-coli from fecal matter everywhere. They show an outdoor kitchen but I didn’t see any jarred or preserved food from their garden. What do these kids eat? Can you imagine feeding 12 people (including a pregnant woman)?

      • The kids could get vaccinated, for free, at a county clinic in my state. Lyme disease is bad stuff and what’s extra-tough about it is that you don’t always GET the classic bull’s eye. A friend of mine has family that hails from India and she DID get the bull’s eye and shared it with all of us because most photos don’t feature those whose skin is melanin-enhanced. I’m glad she’s no longer teaching at McGill because we get to see her more often now!

        I haven’t seen any photos of their garden either. Yeah, I was looking for mason and french canning jars but didn’t notice them. They may be present but I didn’t see them. With a family of 12+, you need a serious garden to cover your bases. Particularly as you always risk SOMETHING getting into it and destroying one or more crops. Or shopping for seasonal produce and putting it up.

        There are fungi experts who have poisoned themselves eating mushrooms in the wild (not frequent but it underscores how tricky it is to identify an edible mushroom from one that will kill you – even when you’ve devoted your professional life to learning this stuff), but I don’t see the parents taking it seriously. I mean, why would you KEEP food around that may have spoiled if you knew it was reaching the end of its shelf life (re: the photo of sick kids around the fire pit and Nicole’s commentary)? Sure, it may not kill them but it could – particularly the smaller kids – so if one of them DID die from it, do they chalk it up to divine will or pure stupidity on the part of the parents?

  • Well they have finally posted on their FB page again. Of course they still claim that the children were taken for no reason other than the complaint by the neighbor and statements made by the estranged son, which they still claim to be false. They say the only requirements that have been made to them by CPS is to fence in the garbage area. What? They say the reason the children have not yet been returned is due to the testimony of the estranged son. Interestingly, their supporters are kinda split now. You can almost tell which ones donated money cause they want to know what they plan to do with it. Wondering why they haven’t used any of it to improve their situation to better their chances of getting children back. Others are still blindly supporting them. I think there are a great deal of people who will think twice before hastily hitting a button to donate funds. Nicole says that she is focused on the business as that is their sole income. The only answer she is giving people about why they haven’t started a cabin is that they are waiting to do that with the kids so they can be a part of it. I have always believed to give or donate if you want to and financially capable. But it should be done without expectations of anything. These folks opened their wallets to strangers but now expect to know where their money has gone. Sadly I think this experience will stop a lot of people from helping others again. And there are a lot of people that truly need help. That is sad. But they shouldn’t think that way because they had good intentions with their donation and they will be rewarded ten fold for their selflessness. They can’t help that they were misled by the Nauglers. But if people are still donating at this point, they need their heads checked.

    • If they don’t get a good start on or build that cabin, they won’t have more than one child to live in it. That’s my bet, anyway.

      It’s a shame that so many people who wouldn’t pay someone for doing a bit of labor in their yard, or hand a sandwich and cup of coffee to someone who holds a placard stating they are homeless and hungry are willing to give $5 and more to someone they’ve never met all due to the a web site.

      If you wouldn’t hand $20 to someone on the street, why would you do so on the basis of some pretty pictures and a sales pitch on a marketing site?

      On my way to work there is a homeless gentleman who has staked out a grassy area and a spot under a bridge. “Harry” keeps the area spotless. He collects garbage and debris that is flung out of car windows, falls from the bridge or is blown from other points. I don’t know if he sleeps there or not, but I suspect so. There are restaurants up the road where he probably goes in the evening to see if a plate has been set aside for him. He has a sign up asking for bags (for trash) and money or food. I’ve given him breakfast on occasion. I don’t live in the area to hire him but I appreciate that he’s civic minded despite whatever led to his decision to live rough.

      He’s demonstrated his willingness to do something in order to be “overlooked” by the residents in their very expensive homes and the local park service employees. At least “his” areas don’t smell like an open sewer so he has also figured out a way to take care of bodily functions without drawing attention to them.

  • Mr. Naugler is scheduled to appear in Breckinridge District court on the 26th at 9:10 am.

    15-M-00112COMMONWEALTH VS. NAUGLER, JOSEPH EDWARD
    (PRETRIAL CONFERENCE)
    1 0008030 MENACING 5M6785614

    Mrs. Naugler is scheduled for 7/7/2015 at 9:10 am.

    15-M-00110COMMONWEALTH VS. NAUGLER, NICHOLE C
    (PRETRIAL CONFERENCE)
    1 0023700 DISORDERLY CONDUCT, 1ST DEGREE 5M2936112
    2 0024040 RESISTING ARREST 5M2936112

  • More of their thoughts on taxes.

    “May 22, 2011
    The absurdity of the IRS
    The IRS is one of the most deplorable government institutions we have. Its sole purpose is to distribute income from one person to another. I take as small of a part in this as I possibly can.

    I am going to be frank here and disclose some personal information. I have for the past few years, made a very small and barely manageable income. With a large family and little income, we are in a position to be able to make a profit off of the IRS system. However, I am morally opposed to taking any money that I did not earn or have been willingly offered. For this reason I am being punished by the IRS. Go figure.

    I have only recently become away of this. Last year when I filed my taxes, I was given a notice. I have argued with the IRS as much as I was mentally able to. I will have to rekindle that fight, but not till I have the energy for it.

    Last year, as I said it has been that way for years, I paid no money in Income taxes. Being self employed with little income, I did not owe, so I sent no money in. BUT here is the kicker. Last year I would have received $2,497.36 in Federal money. Thats a profit, for doing nothing. This applies to all previous years as well. Most would say wow, take it. Not I. I didn’t earn it, it wasn’t given, it was taken. I don’t want it.

    Part of this is my fault and I take responsibility for that. Since I did not make much money and I did not want a refund, I didn’t file taxes for 3 of the 4 years. That I am working on correcting. I know I know.. We don’t all make smart choices all the time.

    The rest of the story.. In 2003 I was in foreclosure. I was advised to sign the home over to the mortgage company in order to save my credit.. LIE. I did just that and my credit was harmed just the same. The downside to that is that I now have to pay taxes on the “forgiven” price of the loan. The loan wasn’t forgiven. The house was sold. The mortgage co made their money. Somebody’s not being honest here.

    Below is a photo of the statement sent to me

    The $2,400 is the amount of profit for 2009. The $11,000 is the tax I owe on the house. Then the penalties and interest.. Now if we assume that now for 5 years total counting 2010, I would have received at least $2,000 a year thats $10,000 the IRS would have PAID me for nothing. I bet if I filed all the exemptions I could have walked away with over $15,000 profit for those years. Thats alot of money. But because I had decided to not partake of this income redistribution program I am now being charged nearly $20,000.

    This is what is wrong with our tax system. Because I refuse to be part of this system, and tried to do what I felt was right, I am being penalized. Once resolved, my solution now is to file as normal and donate the check I guess. I still don’t want their money. I hope whoever seeks office on 2012 has a goal to correct this failed system. Its terrible to hear how they want to raise taxes on the “rich” so they can give this money to the poor. If the rich want to give the poor money, let them. Don’t force them. They can use my “refunds” till its paid off but I wont pay them one red cent. I don’t want any part of this.

    If anyone enjoys doing taxes and wants to volunteer their time, come on over. In the meantime, do me a favor.. Look for someone who supports changing the tax system. Look for candidates that knows the problem with the IRS and its unfair taxing practices.VOTE them into office in 2012.”

    Lest they forget, Congress writes the laws that the IRS has to enforce. Including regarding the forgiven loan as taxable income. Take it up with whomever was representing you at the time.

    I see there was no offer made like, “If anyone enjoys doing taxes and would help me, I’ll donate MY services to you.” Nope, just wanted others to give to them without receiving anything in return.

    Classy.

    • Really? Anyone with half a brain should know that if your home forecloses, you are responsible for the difference of the loan amount and what the property brought. It’s called deficiency. And does she really believe in her way of thinking that because she failed to file taxes when she would have allegedly received a refund, that they should just wipe the slate clean? How logical would it be for the government to do “barter” business like that? “well yeah we’ll take your goat for the money you owe us”. Who in this family supposedly has an IQ of 175? Was it really 75? I’m sorry but there is no logic to that thinking. And if she had gotten a refund she would just “donate” it cause she doesn’t want their money but by gollie she will take everyone else’s hard earned and taxed money. I think I am going to have to stop following this before I further lose tolerance for ignorance.

    • She has a problem with redistribution of income but has no problem with defaulting on a loan? Cancellation of debt is income. I think there might be an exception of personal residence but the thing they bought was probably considered something moveable. They borrowed money. Bought a portable unit. Trashed the portable unit. The portable unit was repossessed and in its trashed state couldn’t be sold for enough to pay off the debt. The difference is income.

      This nit wit got a notice from the IRS and the IRS only has electronic record of the income and not of their personal exemptions. There are volunteers who will help even people with IQs of 175 to fill out a tax form. She spends all her time on the internet, she can get a fill in pdf of a 1040, fill it out and she won’t owe anything. If the Dad would just leave the homestead and get a job at McDonalds the family would get massive Earned Income Credits. The EIC was designed exactly for families like this family. To encourage poor parents to get a minimum wage job to make the effort to contribute to their families.

      This simple solution to her tax woes would require that she get a social security numbers for the kids. Hmm, these anti-government types don’t like social security numbers. She should stop making this all about her and leave the anti-government stuff to the Koch bros.

      • Joe did have a job at McDonald’s but was fired for sexual harassment. He had a job at a hotel after that but was fired for stealing among other things. Apparently people with an IQ of 175 cannot hold down jobs.

      • Rebecca Howell

        I assume that post was from Nicole Naugler regarding taxes. I wish people would stop blaming the government for everything. If the Nauglers worked and filed taxes- they would have been refunded about $5400 is my guess- not $2000 a year and it’s not all that complicated. However- A bank loan is a separate issue. Yes- they undoubtedly got an FHA loan because it’s easy to do. Then the FHA foreclosed on the loan. So this is why she is blaming the government.

        Look- we all know that the tax code sucks, and that we don’t all agree on how tax money is spent, etc., but we don’t live in an anarchy (thank goodness) and if the Nauglers failed to file a return that’s their choice. If they decide to take out a loan and not repay it- that’s their choice, but don’t come here crying about poor you!

        Seriously. This is typical Narcissistic behavior. Everyone is doing the Naugler’s wrong. They’ve done nothing wrong- ever- according to them.

    • She fails to mention that one reason they don’t file taxes is because Good ole Joe owes back child support and they IRS will take the refund.

      • I don’t wish to understand these people. I want to figure out how to remove the psychic slime from my mind.

        There are only so many ways to make it stop, right?

    • Lee, her thinking is just bonkers! It hurt my brain reading her “logic”. >_<

      As far as the house goes, is she thinking she sold it back to the mortgage company? Or that because they were able to sell it, she shouldn't owe on the defaulted loan they couldn't pay? My husband and I went through debt settlement a year after our son was born (cc debt up to our eyeballs when I became a stay at home parent). We made payments to the debt settlement company every month. They negotiated with the creditors/debt collectors on our behalf to cancel out some of the totals we owed. It took 6 years, but we got our 3 cards settled (pretty much one every other year). We received notices for each canceled debt in order to include it on our income taxes as income for that year; despite not actually having that income, it counts because you had it at some point in your life and now they're holding you responsible for having had it. I didn't like including it, but I did it. We messed up. We got in over our heads. And we made it.

      I would think that the Naugler's would take what they could from the government they hate so badly. Especially if it's "easy" income for them. Not filing a return is only hurting them, not the government.

      • Hi Seanaci,

        I suspect it’s the latter, not the former. She strikes me as the sort of person who would nod her head up and down when going over this stuff but either not understand what her obligations are to the contract OR she just plays dumb and “forgets” her obligations. Then schemes until she hits on a way to get others to pay her bills.

        “As far as the house goes, is she thinking she sold it back to the mortgage company? Or that because they were able to sell it, she shouldn’t owe on the defaulted loan they couldn’t pay?”

        Perhaps she won’t owe taxes on the money donated (which just makes me crazy thinking about it but if that’s the loophole in the law…) but what really gets to me is that people are donating THEIR after-tax income to her and then she won’t be liable for taxes on it. She enjoys all the perks of being a citizen of Kentucky and the US but doesn’t want to pay towards the upkeep of the infrastructure, for example.

        I have lived in a rural area, with an outhouse (until we got the plumbing fixed), raised chickens, had a garden, had a double-barrel stove, cut firewood for the wintertime but no, we had electricity too. Didn’t use too much but it was available. Many of my neighbors were VERY poor, some weren’t but quite a number were extremely poor. I can’t think of a single person whose home was anything like what the Nauglers have featured in the past 18 months or so. People would keep their surroundings tidy. I never homeschooled my kids but that doesn’t mean I wasn’t involved in their education.

        I have a great deal of respect for people who DO homestead and who can and HAVE figured out how to get off the power grid (or be barely a presence), etc. This couple aren’t doing that, at all. What they’ve put together is reminiscent of a shantytown and it’s simply not acceptable.

        Their homestead wouldn’t be out of place for a refugee camp except it’s not as well organized and most people would be working very hard to get OUT of such squalor, rather than reveling in it.

        I feel badly for the kids. I hope that they are with kind, even-handed foster parents and are able to keep themselves happily busy while their parents work at getting themselves put back together.

  • Blessed Little Homestead We cut our own wood this year. Last year we had only been on the property a few months before winter hit.

    They KNEW winter was coming but they didn’t build anything with a FLOOR, walls and a ROOF? Nor did they get started cutting, splitting, stacking and drying firewood? We have dealt with 3 (dead) trees already this year and in less than one month. What was stopping them?

  • Does this mean that someone is staying on site with the family to ensure they make it to the hearing on Monday? Or are they in a rental unit with someone monitoring them? If not, I bet they’ll do a runner.

    May 15, 2015

    “Blessed Little Homestead

    6 mins ·

    Sitting here with my 10 children. Mosiah won’t leave my lap. You have no idea how good this feels.
    We have a supervised visit till court on Monday. I will update more. I am busy hugging my children.”

    • I saw that. She keeps saying how much she misses her kids but when she gets to spend time with them she is on Facebook. Seems like a concerned and involved mother to me.

    • Rebecca Howell

      They had a supervised visit with their children on Friday and it wasn’t at their pig sty. My guess is that it wasn’t an overnight visit or anything like that. I’m sure they are keeping the addresses of the foster homes secret from the Nauglers, and I suspect Joe was not allowed to visit with these children at all.

    • Jeff, she’s like most other parents now a days with technology and social media. They’re noses in their phones and the kids doing god knows what.

      I’d guess the visit was at a court appointed location (and given the nature of the situation, I’d also guess heavily guarded/crawling with police). A neighbor I babysat for years ago would take her son (who was a baby at the time) to a location determined by the court to have a supervised visit with his father. I couldn’t see them allowing the kids to go back to the shack for a visit.

  • I’ve been intrigued by this case and have read pretty much every article and as much of the Naugler’s “Blessed Little Homestead” page as humanly possible. Gary gives a really thoughtful explanation and I appreciate his insights. There is something terribly wrong with the Nauglars. Putting the whole Mormon aspect aside, they aren’t sane. They are at least 45 years old now, and have had plenty of time to earn a living and build an actual home for their kids. They have been renting for decades, don’t pay their rent and trash the rental properties they live in. CPS is called each time, and they flee. That’s it. When I hear from various sources (some on here and other comments on posts about this case) that the children poop everywhere and it’s not cleaned up- where do you go from there? This couple is too far gone, if they don’t know right from wrong. Living in excrement is not just disgusting it is unhealthy. These kids have been living like animals and that’s just not fair to them. I can’t imagine the sore bottoms that they have had from lack of hygience. They live in outdoors because the Nauglar’s simply ran out of options. No one would rent to them given their track record. This is a clear case of unfit parents. They are destitute and incapable of raising children.

  • The images of those conditions are etched in my mind. I wish I had never seen it. If they get their kids back, in my opinion, the system has failed. There have been children taken from much better situations. If they get them back, I won’t have any choice but to believe it is due to the amount of attention this issue has gotten. For all the people they have supporting them, there should be many many more calling to complain if they are given back.

  • Responding directly to the last statement made by the OP:

    We don’t know if all the children made it out alive. Since they don’t register or report births, we have no way of knowing if they have had other children that may have died during the times that they weren’t being tracked by CPS. I’d assume by now that the mother is almost always pregnant, and thus any long gaps in age between children could have been a child that was either miscarried or died while still young enough to be easily hidden.

    Also, has no one else bothered to question how if they all sleep in the same bed the mother is constantly pregnant? I’m a very open-minded person but since this “homestead” lacks any and all privacy, I have to assume that there are sexual abuse issues (I will add that I consider having sex in front of your children sexual abuse). Now the oldest son who is a half-sibling to the other children has come forward and testified about sexual and physical abuse, neglect, etc.

    I will add that I was homeschooled, closer to being unschooled and had very little adult supervision. My siblings and I had access to and regularly used firearms with a mile or more between us and the closest adult. We had a good time and rarely ever saw a doctor, and yes once I got tetanus and had to get treatment for it. I know what unschooling looks and feels like, and I agree with the author that this is not about homeschooling, religion, or off-grid living. This is about the physical, emotional, and mental safety of the children.


  • This picture here from her own blog haunts me. Not to say that any of us are protected from getting food poison. Even though I have never had it, Im sure many have gotten tainted ingredients they used to prepare a meal that they were totally unaware of. But that is different from it being bad from not being refrigerated 2 hours after prepared. It’s momma and daddy’s job to keep up with what’s good and what’s bad. But she just states in her blog that it was her younger daughter who was a good mommy taking care of the 7 kids who lacked the good judgement and went ahead and ate the pancakes they shouldn’t have. The one girl, boasted by the mother, had good judgement and didn’t eat them. Hello!!!! It should not have been around for them to eat. And then the pic shows them laying outside with the goats and chickens so sick. She said they slept outside often. But the conditions were awful. Good poisoning can kill you. And it was all due to their neglect. Do their followers not see this photo the same way I do? At the very least, why isn’t momma taking care of them instead of taking pictures and putting it midway in her blog post. She often refers to this little girl as a good momma. She’s a child and needs to be. Not a momma. I am so afraid these people will be given back their kids. This picture says more than enough.

    • Same week, further down the page:

      30 Jul 2014

      “Our Adventures
      We headed into Louisville. We are getting a few supplies from our Church’s food pantry. Its been a help. We are working on adjusting our income vs expenses. Its hard to get out of the spiral once it sucks you in. Then you are just putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.

      We enjoy the roadtrip. With lost income and high gas prices, and our van needing repair, we only take necessary trips. We haven’t taken one of our Sunday drives in quite some time. I do hope to get out more, and the children ( ok, Joe and I as well) can’t wait to get a zoo membership again.”

      I’m glad they have availed themselves of their church’s food pantry when they needed to do so rather than permitting a child or children to starve to prove some bizarre point, but they really need to do something very different.

      Oh, they’re against vaccinations too. How fortunate for them that they lived in communities where people around them did get vaccinated so they weren’t going to catch whooping cough or measles. Did anyone catch the article earlier this year about how someone who has had measles has a lowered immunity to other diseases for a year or more?

      8 May 2015 > Mina et al., 348 (6235): 694-699

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      Science 8 May 2015:
      Vol. 348 no. 6235 pp. 694-699
      DOI: 10.1126/science.aaa3662

      Report

      Long-term measles-induced immunomodulation increases overall childhood infectious disease mortality

  • I just ran a PACER search and I wouldn’t lend these people a DIME. Am I allowed to list the creditors?

    03-12208-frm Nicole Celeste Button

    Creditors

    Aaron Rents, Inc.
    309 E. Paces Ferry Rd
    Atlanta, GA 30309 (11052113)
    (cr)
    Aaron’s Sales and Lease
    1019 Hwy 80
    San Marcos, TX 78666 (10979196)
    (cr)
    AFNI/Verizon
    404 Brock Drive
    Bloomington, IL 61701 (11146255)
    (cr)
    All Care Mobile Animal Hosp
    c/o I C Systems, Inc
    P. 0. Box 64378
    St Paul, MN 55164 (10979197)
    (cr)
    American General Finance
    6800 W. Gate Blvd, Ste 130
    Austin, TX 78745-4868 (10979198)
    (cr)
    American General Finance, Inc.
    c/o Matthew M. Cowart
    Soledad Plaza West
    425 Soledad Street, Suite 600
    San Antonio, TX 78205 (11109625)
    (cr)
    American General Financial Services, Inc.
    The Law Offices of Matthew M. Cowart
    Soledad Plaza West
    425 Soledad St., Ste. 600
    San Antonio, TX 78205 (11109755)
    (cr)
    Atty General of U.S.
    Main Justice Bldg, Rm 5111
    10th and Constitution Ave., N.W.
    Washington, D.C. 20530 (10979199)
    (cr)
    Austin Energy, City of Austin
    625 E 10th
    Austin, TX 78701 (10979200)
    (cr)
    Austin Radiological. Assoc
    P. 0. Box 4099
    Austin, TX 78765 (10979201)
    (cr)
    Brake Specialist
    P.O. Box 3501
    Austin, TX 78764 (10979202)
    (cr)
    Caldwell CAD
    c/o Lori Robertson
    P.O. Box 17428
    Austin, TX 78760-7428 (11007078)
    (cr)
    Caldwell County Appraisal District
    P. 0. Box 59
    Lockhart, TX 78644 (10979203)
    (cr)
    Caldwell County TAC
    P. 0. Box 59
    Lockhart, TX 78664 (10979204)
    (cr)
    Cash America
    c/o Exterra Credit Recovery
    P. 0. Box 91
    Boardman, OH 44512 (10979205)
    (cr)
    Central Texas Refuse
    C/O Merchants & Prof Credit Bureau
    11921 N. Mopac Expwy #210
    Austin, TX 78759 (10979206)
    (cr)
    Central TX Medical Center
    1345 Thorpe mlane
    San Marcos, TX 78666 (10979207)
    (cr)
    Dish Network
    P., O., Box 660589
    Dallas, TX 75266 (10979208)
    (cr)
    Fairlane Credit
    P. 0. Box 6508
    Mesa, AZ 85216 (10979209)
    (cr)
    Fairlane Credit
    National Bankruptcy Service Ctr.
    P.O. Box 537950
    Livonia, MI 48153-7950 (11044686)
    (cr)
    Frost National Bank
    816 Congress Ave
    Austin, TX 78701 (10979210)
    (cr)
    Habbit Motor Co.
    2517 IH 35 South
    San Marcos, TX 78666 (10979211)
    (cr)
    Hawthorne Architectiral
    c/o Retrieval Masters Creditors
    2269 S. Saw Mill River Rd.
    Bldg 3
    Elmsford, NY 10523 (10979212)
    (cr)
    HEB
    641 Hopkins
    San Marcos, TX 78666 (10979213)
    (cr)
    Hobby Lobby
    7707 SW 44th St
    Oklahoma City, OK 73179 (10979214)
    (cr)
    Internal Revenue Service
    Special Procedures Staff
    Stop 5022 AUS
    300 E. 8th St.
    Austin, TX 78701 (10979215)
    (cr)
    IRS
    Austin, TX 73301 (10979216)
    (cr)
    Loan Express Co.
    120 W. San Antonio St.
    San Marcos, TX 78666 (10979217)
    (cr)
    Movie Gallery
    Cridit Collection Iervices
    Two Wells Ave
    Newton, MA 02459 (10979218)
    (cr)
    Paul N. Buchanan
    1000 Heritage Center Circle
    Round Rock, TX 78664 (10979219)
    (cr)
    Perry’s Oil
    c/o IC Systems, Inc.
    P. 0. Box 64378
    St. Paul, MN 55164 (10979220)
    (cr)
    Readers Digest
    North Shore Agency
    751 Summa Ave
    Weswtbury, NY 11590 (10979221)
    (cr)
    SBC
    c/o Assetcare, Inc
    5757 Alpha Rd #603
    Dallas, TX 75240 (10979222)
    (cr)
    Seventh Ave
    1112 7th Ave
    Monroe, WI 53566 (10979223)
    (cr)
    Southern Union Gas
    5613 Ave F
    Austin, TX 78751 (10979224)
    (cr)
    State Comptroller of Public Accts
    Revenue Acct. Div-BK Section
    P. 0. Box 13528
    Austin, TX 78711 (10979225)
    (cr)
    Time Warner
    c/o Credit Mgt., Inc
    4200 International Pkwy
    Carrollton, TX 75007 (10979226)
    (cr)
    United States Attorney
    601 N. W. Loop 410, Ste 600
    San Antonio, TX 78216 (10979227)
    (cr)
    United States Trustee
    903 San Jacinto, Ste 230
    Austin, TX 78701 (10979228)
    (cr)
    Verizon
    c/o Sololmon and Solomon
    P. 0. Box 15019
    Albany, NY 12212 (10979229)
    (cr)
    Vermont Telephone
    c/o Equifax Risk Mgt Svc
    P.0. 5409
    Albany, NY 12205 (10979230)
    (cr)
    World Finance
    206 B West San Antonio
    s 78666
    San Marcos, TX 78666

    • Holy crow! No wonder they fled “the grid”!

      • Well, her bankruptcy discharged her debts (I don’t know if she owed taxes on the money that was forgiven – I don’t know how it worked in 2003) at that time. Since then they have had other issues but nothing that showed up on PACER. I’m not interested in paying Maine or New Hampshire money to see what legal troubles they may have had while in the area.

  • Wait a minute – does this mean Mr. Naugler can legally carry a loaded firearm in his vehicle and send his kid to fetch it for him?

    There is no firearms permit necessary for the possession of firearms in the state of Kentucky. The carrying of shotguns and rifles is also permitted without a license, however, to carry a concealed handgun, an individual must have a license to carry a concealed weapon.

    The state of Kentucky considers a concealed weapon one that is not easily visible and within immediate access for use by the person. This also extends to firearms in vehicles placed underneath the driver’s seat. A weapon located in the glove compartment, whether the compartment itself is locked or unlocked, is not considered under the state’s definition of a concealed weapon.

    • Firearms, loaded or unloaded, may be stored in more places about a vehicle — including center consoles and seat pockets — without being considered concealed.

  • If they get those children back,,,we all have failed. the adults should be put away for life,,,away from each orher and the children

  • Both were in various legal scrapes while residing in Texas (Hays and Travis counties). Hardly the kind that would lead me to believe they were good credit risks. Nicole plead guilty to passing hot checks, after all.

  • I would say it is possible that their intentions for this donated money would be to get themselves out of trouble with the IRS and other creditors. Is there a chance that the IRS could attach this donated money. I mean I know it was set up by someone on their behalf, but if it gets transferred to the Nauglers, I would think the IRS could put a freeze on the money. Any thoughts?

    • brbr2424 is an accountant and the information shared appalls me. I’ve been following a shady animal rescue that uses various crowd sourcing sites and I have this horrible feeling that they can get away with what they’re doing in addition to not paying any taxes on the over 60K they’ve been given this year. Despite not filing the solicitation forms with their state.

      So, it may be that there is nothing KY or the US government can do to make these people pay their fair share towards the protection of the nation, its infrastructure that permits them to be given this money or raise it via the business, etc.

      If Kentucky Land Company/Gordon Board wants to continue to pay the county taxes on that land the Nauglers are purchasing, that’s their look-out. I think it’s stupid of them to do so rather than the Nauglers but there you go. I don’t believe that Pace Ellsworth and the other investors are wise to fund this business (if she’s such a wonderful groomer, where are her awards? Are there clientele who showed their dogs and won to bolster their claims? ANY Facebook business can have five stars when it’s their own page because they can REMOVE reviews they don’t like!). I won’t give them any money and I doubt there will be any profits or even repayment of the “bridge loan”.

      Color me cynical.

  • To be honest, cps might have that goal (feel like I often see the opposite side of that in the news, but I am clearly no expert and have no kids of my own, just work with everyone else’s), but the judge isn’t always about that. I have a friend who signed her kids to her parents temporarily while she was in the hospital because they were willing so her husband could still work (they live on the same block), and when her parents decided they wanted to keep the kids, they hired a lawyer who contributed to the judge;s campaign and made sure the judge was rewarded for the judgment they wanted. There was no need for evidence, or wasting everyone’s time in court (I was there- and couldn’t believe things that were being said, and after being proven otherwise, the judge simply said she didn’t have time to hear more from the other side- the parent’s side- and that it was easier to go ahead and grant custody to the grandparents. ARE YOU KIDDING??????? And I saw the whole thing. You would never believe something like that actually happens until you are there and see it yourself!!!!!)

    • Why on earth would you sign your child away to anyone else? And I dont see how that would allow a husband to still work. Mine has never had troubles working after our kids were born. I would sign my children away to no one. That is basically an adoption isnt it? That case sounds strange from the start. And as for the pictures almost every picture I looked through the kids were shoeless, which is dangerous when there is so much debree lying around, they were always filthy. Im not sure you really spent much time looking at the pictures.

  • So I looked back through the pictures, and I see ONE picture of the kids all muddy (with the caption that the rule is they are allowed to play in the mud as long as they get cleaned up afterwards).
    The kids look clean, and they ARE WEARING SHOES. What pictures is the OP looking at?

    • They did wear shoes when it was cold. There is a picture of the youngest child, just a toddler, walking inside under the tarp on dirt and on boards and trips on one of the boards. There are dangerous things all around them. It’s a video of the little boy. I’m sure there are many pictures where they aren’t wearing shoes.

      • The toddler was barefoot. It hurts just to look at the pictures and videos. So sad!

  • Well today is custody hearing. If the State gives these children back to their parents, a great injustice will have been made for these children. I’m sure CPS has reviewed all the pics on their blog provided by the Nauglers and that says enough. I’m sure There are many people who have had their children taken for less reasons. Those people will be furious as they should be. I, myself, as a tax payer, will be furious. This should be the easiest case with the most damning evidence provided by the parents on public forum. No brainer if you have eyes and can read.

    • Is it occurring right now? I do hope they don’t regain their kids without putting forth serious effort to provide a safer environment for them (at the very least). Writing on their FB page that they’ll build a suitable cabin AFTER the kids come home wouldn’t lead me to releasing the kids to their custody.

      I imagine that this has been a rough time for the kids too. It’s hard enough going to visit family for a week or two, or taking a vacation with another family, let alone getting split up and told to live with other families, follow their household rules and not feel completely out of place. I hope that the foster parents all have big areas to play in, large gardens, at least a dog or cat to play with and that while the kids will probably chafe while living there, they don’t find it completely uncomfortable and unpleasant.

      If Joe and Nicole were running from creditors and lawsuits elsewhere and hiding in Kentucky, their cover is now blown. I don’t know how the donated money will be doled out but if there are people who can demonstrate they were awarded monies owed, I hope they receive it. If that means they don’t have their kids returned until everyone is paid off AND a sturdy cabin is built, all the better.

  • Natalia Martinez WAVE 3 News

    Couple living off the grid is not granted custody of their 10 children.

    • Natalia Martinez WAVE 3 News
      6 mins ·

      The Nauglers still have a chance to regain custody of their children. They will be back in court again, but that won’t be until mid June, according to their attorney. I will post any other updates as soon as I get them

      So…after Mr. Naugler has his pre-trial hearing, 5/26, but before Mrs. Naugler has hers on 7/7/2015.

      If they’re serious about getting their kids returned they’ll do something to make it possible.

      • I suspect they won’t get custody of the children back until after both of their pre-trial hearings. If the state is smart, they’ll hold on to the kids until after. I have a feeling (and I’ve said it before, if not here, on several of my posts on other articles regarding the Naugler’s) they were in hiding when Nicole and the 2 oldest boys were confronted by police 2 weeks ago. Since in her recordings she stated they weren’t staying on the property at the time, they were simply there to get some things they needed. Had they not been cornered by the police, I’m almost positive they would have run with the kids. Anyway, if they were given custody of the kids prior to either of their pre-trial hearings, I’m almost positive they’d run. After all, she didn’t think they had any right to take her kids anyhow.

      • I’m trying very hard to be as even-handed, open-minded and fair as I can possibly make myself be regarding these two adults. Personally, I think they’re terrible parents and while poverty and even homelessness is NOT a reason to split up families, whatever the heck the Naugler parents are plotting and scheming isn’t likely to be in the best interests of their children in the short- or long-term. In my view, anyway.

        I don’t want the kids to be returned to them either. I don’t have a say in the outcome, of course.

        If they do regain custody I hope that they pull themselves together to be stable parents and get serious about educating them, providing for their future and so on.

        I wonder if the mortgage holder is also leaning on them to clean up the land, put up a suitable dwelling (I have no problem with a composting toilet, but I do believe in floors and solid walls to keep the cold at bay in the wintertime) and stick to the terms of the note. This isn’t good advertising for Mr. Board or any of his other businesses.

      • Seanaci, It was said by their spokesperson pace elsworth where he tells the story (the recording is at there save our family site) that the family was at their home and were still living there when the authorities arrived 2 days before the children were removed. They then went and hid on the property. So they were there the dirst time the police and cps showed up. Thats when they left and ran away to a friends home. The pokice had tried to contact them on there phones as well. I believe Nicole and the 2 boys were gathering up what they needed to take off and leave. It sounds like they have done it before. So I believe you are exactly right, and its likely the sheriff and judge felt the same way, and thats when it became an emergency order.

  • Thank you for posting this! I spent most of my childhood (in the 1980’s & 90’s) living off the grid in Alaska and Texas. People often think that means living like the Nauglers did- but nothing could be further from the truth. Except for missing out on watching TV and weekly trips to the mall, I don’t think my childhood was all that different from my contemporaries.
    We had regular visits to the pediatrician, dentist and new eyeglasses every year. We were always clean, well fed and never bored. There were endless adventures in the woods and fields around our homes and plenty of good old fashioned work to be done around the place. I hope these children will not be returned until their parents make significant improvements to the homestead. The parents need counseling to get to the root of the problem and ensure that health and safety of the children are the priority going forward.
    My parents and other homesteaders they have talked to about this case are outraged that these parents would let their children live in such conditions. You are right- this is not about homesteading, not about homeschooling but about giving these children a chance to be in a healthy and safe environment.

  • They just announced on their FB page that they got to be with the kids the entire weekend but then the kids weren’t able to return to them after Court yesterday. They have also set aside a day- yes a day- this Thursday- to clean up debris around the home site and build fence around trash burn area and pond. That’s it. Of course they are asking for volunteers to come and help them. But most of their supporters live in other states, even other Countries. I’m sorry but it’s like they still don’t get it. Due to their neglect, their children became seriously ill because they ate pancakes that had gone bad. And the mother was calling one of the daughters a good little momma for watching over the sick ones. And commenting on how that child had the good judgement not to eat them while the others lacked good judgement. 7 got sick. Which leaves 3 that didn’t. One being the girl and Mosiah, and one more. That means that even children older than this girl ate the food. Maybe they too could tell by smell or nibble that the food was bad but ate it cause they were starving. This wasn’t an issue where they made food with some store bought items that were already bad unknowing to them. This was a case of the parents didn’t properly store them and they became bad. But how could they store them properly without refrigeration or freezer. The most disturbing part of the whole “picture” is that mom was sitting back as if totally removed from the situation taking a picture of her obviously very sick kids lying on the ground where they slept outside with goats passing a few feet from them. She had already admitted their situation had gotten pretty dire. They barely made it through the winter after deciding to send the prefab shed back (probably was repossessed) with winter approaching and having to start from scratch. She had already said that they about froze and had to spend a week in the van. She had already said that their garden had failed the following spring right before the kids got really sick. You can see the vast contrast from before they moved to this property. But regardless, it’s the job of the parents to provide food for these kids. I am so shocked by the number of supporters they have. But I’m noticing the supporters are supporters of Joe and Nicole, not of the kids. How could they be supporters of the kids and say this is perfectly ok. When you love someone, you want them fed and cared for. If you can’t do that for whatever reason, then you should be glad someone else is. At least until you can get your act together. So you want to live this lifestyle but you obviously aren’t cut out for it- chalk it up to a dream you have to let go of due to your own inabilities to make it happen. Or try again but with better preparedness. Not once did they mention checking out the cistern on the property and getting water. They are too busy making the dog grooming place all nice. A couple of folks did comment that so with 40,000 donations you are going to clean up trash and put a fence up? I seriously have to stop following this cause it is making me sick. But everyone don’t forget to show up out there and clean up their animal/human crap for Em and fence in their garbage. Wouldn’t that mean fence in the whole property? Oh abd they conveniently block anyone who posts anything not in their favor on FB (actually have someone doing it for them). I read one woman’s comment before it was deleted stating that Nicole was in an open forum prior speaking of getting food stamps. I didn’t see this myself but that was what was said. Also she said that the daughter Olivia has ran away before. I did learn that they had another blog prior to blessedlittlehomestead called homespun something. But that ladies comments are gone. Poof.

    • I’m also floored that they were depending upon others for their drinking water for more than a year. For their kids and (I hope!) their animals too. The pond water may have a very high sulfur concentration and that’s neither tasty nor recommended. There’s a municipal water works, they have a van or pick-up truck or something, purchase one of those water trailers that can tote 300 gallons or more. Even getting clean empty plastic or metal barrels (50 gallons or so) with lids and making spigots for them you can get quite a bit of water moved to your home. Just purchase it from the darn water works rather than imposing/begging/bartering/borrowing from your neighbors for such a long time. That’s just asking for way too much.

      Stealing water from people is even worse than standing there draining their well or tap but at least paying them for their electricity/water bills.

      • Rebecca Howell

        The Nauglers are asking for volunteers to help them put up a fence around their trash and around the pond this Thursday, May 21st. Funny how all these libertarians singing their praises aren’t racing to help them! I read a flurry of posts all wishing them luck with only 2 people volunteering to help but not on Thursday. They’ll come over the weekend or next week.
        No one wants to help because they know it’s a pig sty. BTW in case anyone wonders why they have to fence in the pond, the pond is only about 100 ft. from the house of sticks. Because the house of sticks doesn’t have a door on it. They feel that for the kids sake there needs to be a fence around the pond.
        Anyway- all these outspoken supporters don’t seem to want to help the Nauglers get their kids back. Talk is cheap. They don’t care about the Nauglers or those kids. They are just defending their own weird lifestyles (I’m sure their own homes are disgusting too.)

      • We have pretty awful tasting sulfery water, so we just buy 5 gallon water jugs. It costs about $10-15 a month for 6 of us, granted it would be more if we used it for cooking. So still not a huge amount, i cant imagine having to steal water! And the pancake incident is so sad. How bad do pamcakes need to be to make you sick, and how hungry the children must have been to eat them anyways!

  • Their old blog was homespunharvestfarm.blogspot.com

  • And check out blessedlittlehomeschool.blogspot.com. Very big contrast to what their recent and current situation is. Sad how it took such an abrupt turn. They were doing pretty good. And she was homeschooling. She did however neglect to notify school board of her home schooling ibtebtions and keep records as required by state. But this is so sad to see how bad it got relatively fast. I wish they could get it back to here for the kids sake.

  • And they just keep getting more and more “likes” and support on FB. People wanting to know now how to donate money since they (get this) took the gofundme account down when they learned they would have to pay taxes on the money. They don’t want to be held accountable for anything. Now (get this) they are asking people to send them money to PayPal. Really? Really? I would have expected at this point for their #’s of likes to have gone down. That people would have hit it again to unlike them, but no. This folks will fall for anything. I wish I had some swamp land to sell them in Fla. This has gotten ridiculous beyond compare and the issue at hand, being the safety of the children, is at the bottom of everyone’s list. Crazy.

  • By the way, where has Gary been? Haven’t seen any posts by him for several days.

  • all you people with your negative comments on this family and how they live should look in your own clothe,es im sure you have things there you don’t want people seeing as for how the kids are raised with animals in there home so what my mom had chickens in a bed room in are house same as little pigs ,hell now a days you can have a pig in your home as a pet and a chicken rabbit there is no law ageist it now a days and if you can go camping in the summer in a make shift tent then what makes a difference if its in the winter the kids all look healthy happy and most of all loved they did,net dye from hunger or cold look at them as for them playing in the mud so what this nation is so worried about kids being dirty well juss what its healthy to be dirty it build up your E System and as saying things about thes people as parents i realy dont think any one of ya,s has any thing to talk about at least there not raising thugs or drug addicts

    • You lost all credibility once you said your mom kept chickens in a bedroom in her house. Well there you have it! That’s why you see no issues with this predicament they’ve gotten themselves into, and dragged those poor kids along.

    • There is a BIG difference between camping in the summertime and in the wintertime. What they were doing wasn’t camping. Nor were they doing a good job of it. Nicole photographed everything else, or had her kids photograph it. I didn’t see that she bothered to use a separate MAT to protect the bed from all the blood, feces, etc. when giving birth – and those photos weren’t taken by her husband. Can we all say group B streptococcus for the whole family to enjoy?

      Take a look at the photo of the wood stove that was placed on top of bricks that weren’t properly cemented, nor did they extend at least 12″ away from all four edges of the stove and it wasn’t SECURED either. Relying on luck is a bad long-term strategy.

      My great-grandparents had chickens in their basement but no one was permitted to sleep down there and they cleaned it out every day when the chickens went outside. Why? Because breathing dried chicken feces can make you ill.

      Zoonotic diseases carried by chickens:

      avian tuberculosis
      Erysipelas
      salmonella
      cryptosporidiosis
      campylobacterosis
      toxoplasmosis

      Zoonotic diseases carried by pigs (it sounds as though your family were raising pigs to eat them, not as pets – people tend to vaccinate their pets, train them to void outside or in designated areas, etc. You can train a rabbit to use a litter box, by the way):

      rabies – they’re mammals after all
      brucellosis
      salmonella
      poxviruses (there are many of them – so many of them!)
      vesicular stomatitis
      trichinosis
      balantadidiasis

      Abraham Lincoln was born in a one-room cabin but here are two other points – his stepmother was a TEACHER and when he became an attorney he didn’t re-create the lifestyle. I wonder why not? I’ll hazard a guess, he had worked very hard to have a better life and one that was less likely to lead to an early demise.

      • You can train a pig to use a litterbox as well, fyi. But most people keep small pigs only, and when they get too big for the house they’re dumped at the pound or farm sanctuaries like the rest of America’s unwanted pets.

  • I have never said anything about their clothes. They can live how they want so long as the children don’t go hungry or be so hungry as to eat food that has gone bad causing food poison. They had to be hungry to eat that and they became very ill and we’re not tended to. This is all documented by Nicole herself with her pics and words. Also according to her own words they nearly froze and had to sleep in van for a week. I have not posted any comments on their own site. Only this one. But all we are stating are facts straight from the pics and their own words.

  • Excellent article along with insightful, heartfelt comments by all (except of course, Nicole under an alias, along with a few “Naglerheads” who’ve obviously drank the koolaid…..Just sayin. And I sincerely hope local LE thinks to bring out a few cadaver dogs……(anxiety attack happening now) Sigh……

  • There is a slideshow here that one of their local news stations posted after being allowed on the property during their clean-up. The filth turns your stomach. http://www.wave3.com/slideshow?widgetid=157540

    • Thank you for posting this. I am just ILL actually seeing how filthy and unsafe that place was. And it appears their “home” didn’t have 3 walls…more like one solid back wall and 2 partial side walls with an open front and covered in tarps. They are living the same way homeless people live in that shack. I am praying CPS does not release those kids back to their parents until they have BUILT an actual 4 (or some will say 6) sided home that will protect fully from the elements.

  • concernedcitizen68

    BLH is having folks who disagree with them on their FB page shut down from their own FB account. And these people aren’t even harassing them or talking profanity. Just asking questions. Their supporters are the ones that need their FB accounts shut down because they do harass anyone who doesn’t support them as well as bully and cuss people out. Not only that but FB should be more concerned with the fact that she has admitted that her under age children have FB accounts. That’s against FB rules so they had to lie about their ages to get the accounts, which makes their accounts fake. The local news station was welcomed by Nicole to come out and air live at their big “cleanup day”. Not too smart on Nicole’s part. However, Nicole didn’t share the news link on her BLH FB page. Some of her supporters did and were kinda shocked at what they saw. In addition to the brief news cast, the news channel posted on wave 3, an additional 67 pic slideshow which was, as you can imagine, a horrifying sight. But supporters were like she has nothing to hide or she wouldn’t have allowed them there. Others were like , not a good call on her behalf as the pics speak volumes. I assume the reason she didn’t post it was because most of her supporters are out of state, even Country. FB needs to take up issue with the fact that those supporters of hers are harassing and bullying everyone. They should be reported.

    • Seriously? Guess I’m done commenting on their page.

      Pathetic that they seem so much more concerned with what people are saying on their PUBLIC FB page than they are on getting their kids back. Sorry, but I would be taking my FB page down and working on getting my kids back. The fact that they are taking the time to have peoples private FB pages suspended due to comments on their public page is absurd and vindictive.

      • concernedcitizen68

        Totally agree. But it’s not about the kids. It’s about poor Nicole and Joe and how everyone is picking on them. They are so wrapped up in themselves. For Christians, they seem to forget Timothy 5:8

        “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
        They can say what they want, but their own pics and blogs and especially the pics by the news show that they were not providing for their family. Sad situation for those innocent kids.

    • Jenny Islander

      Looking at what the Nauglers invited the film crew to see, I have to wonder at their level of unawareness. It reminds me of the weird way that some hoarders act: walking matter-of-factly through a kitchen that is crammed with bug-infested filth saying that over here they make bread, and over there they make meatballs, and that’s the Cuisinart they use for chopped salad, when it’s clear to everyone but them that there is zero work space and nobody has touched anything in the room in months except to pile up more junk on top of it. I hesitate to diagnose over the Internet–but there is reality and then there is what the Nauglers describe as reality, and sometimes the two are not congruent.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        “I REJECT YOUR REALITY AND SUBSTITURE MY OWN.”
        — Mythbusters intro

  • Reblogged this on A Time to Vax and commented:
    Breckinridge, KY — Started reading about this today and it is just appalling. Coming from a few years of “homesteading” experience (homesteading-lite), having a background in natural resources and land management, and being a CASA volunteer, this situation strikes me on so many levels. This is probably the best summary of the REAL issues that can be observed at the Naugler family homestead just by looking at the pics. I’m glad this author chose to focus on the pond because that was one of the first things that stuck out to me as well. The pond is a scummy, open pit sitting just a few hundred yards away from the family’s tent (12 people living in a tent!!). It is clearly a health and safety hazard, but in one interview the mom explains its condition as being “green” due to “letting it go back to nature” or something. Degraded conditions do not spontaneously improve. The ignorance– and I say that honestly, not intending to hurl insults– of this family makes this situation totally unsafe for children. It’s one thing if adults want to live backcountry style in a situation like this (and I wouldn’t mind the camping, minus the poor land stewardship), but it’s another thing entirely to have a very large family with babies and toddlers living like this.

    This just hurts my heart… and being supportive of large families, and homeschooling and homesteading and off-the-grid living, I feel in a way sort of responsible to point out why this is so wrong. It’s probably readily apparent to most people. To some, the problems may not be so clear, especially if you generally support some of the marginalized choices this family has made. But this is not ok. It’s just not.

    Keeping things neat and tidy on a farm/homestead with kids is not easy and it doesn’t always have to look pretty, but it does have to be safe.

    It is not necessarily even about poverty. The family has received tens of thousands of dollars in gifts from people who support and clearly care for them, but so far it is unclear whether that money will actually be used to clean up the property and invest in a real dwelling in order to have their children returned to them.

    From the article:
    “This has been framed as a “off the grid” issue. It is not. “Off the grid” does not mean, by default: dangerous, filthy, ignorant of basic food preparation and safety, anti Government and anti documentation. “Off the Grid” living can be done safely, cleanly, and in full compliance with all local laws and regulations (in many states). I know. I lived it.

    This has been framed as a homeschool issue.

    It is not.

    Kentucky has very open homeschooling laws. It’s legal. Heck, “un-schooling” is legal there too.

    The children were taken because it was unsafe. VERY unsafe, not because they were homeschooled.”

  • Totally agree! I commented on the pictures she posted on the FB page recently and I got blocked lol a cabin? A shanty, lean-to, shack, glorified tent, yes! Cabin no! Lol this whole story is like watching a train wreck , cant turn away. I even questioned in my comment how are these living conditions any better than the public service announcements we see of third world countries? And what are they always for? Wells, clean water. Why because it’s life and death to live in filth. Lol so much about this family irks me! Lol this is exactly why people think those of us from Appalachia are a pack of barefoot, hillbillies. They give homeschooling, off grid, homesteading, Kentucky, and Appalachia a bad name. Their kids ARE better off currently in foster care. I hope this post goes viral! These moochers need exposed!

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      Yet they seem to have enough money for lawyers and court fights.
      Guess it depends on what’s Really Important.

    • I was blocked from their Facebook…I guess because I mentioned the money and that the focus had seemed to switch from the children to all about getting the money. Anyway it didn’t take long and I was blocked. I’ve been a little scared because, I haven’t been blocked from my fb yet…but when I shared this, I apparently was reported and it was removed in a couple of places that I shared the story. I think it’s very good, informative and without a doubt very true since I seem to be ‘ruffling feathers’ when I just want people to see what’s really happening.

  • Pingback: The Naugler Family: A cautionary tale | Wild Homestead

  • BRECKINRIDGE County DISTRICT Court Docket for 05/26/2015

    Room: D

    09:10 AM

    15-M-00112COMMONWEALTH VS. NAUGLER, JOSEPH EDWARD
    (PRETRIAL CONFERENCE)
    1 0008030 MENACING 5M6785614

    I wonder how many supporters will be present.

  • concernedcitizen68

    Any gofundme monies should have been raised for the children divided equally with a court appointed guardian to oversee the money once they reach 21. Those who have donated are obviously going to support the parents, even with all the pics and old blog posts that have come to surface. If they didn’t support them, they would have to admit that they rushed in and lacked good judgement in donating. Only a handful have done so. Some are trying to stop their payments now that they have become more enlightened of the situation. It’s a shame what these folks have done. I would say the upcoming pre trial for Joe is just a drop in the bucket for the possible charges that could stem from the obvious neglect of the children.

  • Another question I have is their vehicle situation. The only picture I saw on their facebook page was what looked like a broken down mini van? But even a mini van isn’t big enough for 10kids, especially most still need car seats. I would assume, based on her pictures of not owning a crib or even beds for her kids that car seats have never been a priority either! That’s illegal! There are car seat laws in every state in the U.S. now!

    • In one of the videos that they posted to youtube (may still be there) they state they are driving a 15 passenger van.

      • concernedcitizen68

        I did see a picture of the passenger van (blue) and even car seats for the little ones.

      • Oh ok good! At least that’s one thing safe they’ve done to protect the kids lol After seeing other photos and the video of the baby trying to walk then falling on their makeshift dirt/plank floor I would not have been surprised if the vehicle/car seat issue wouldn’t have been a concern to them lol I did see somewhere where someone claimed that Nicole had supposedly said part of the gofund me money was for a new van but I don’t recall personally seeing that comment.

      • dana, they state on the gofund me page that 15,000 dollars are to go to a new van, 3,000 for new cell phones, laptops and school books, then 25,000 for housing, well, septic, and those needs. And 2000 for travel and other expenses that come up during there legal case.

        They also have a video on their youtube where they were pulled over for a seat belt violation, it turned very heated very fast. (The police definitly had the right to pull them over, you can clearly hear one boy say that one child didnt have his belt on) its an interesting watch.

        As much as I feel safe transportation is important, it seems like since they have a van (that was donated to them earlier on) that they would be best spending the money. on their living arangments. 25,000 isnt going to go far when it comes to a well, septic, and a home. Spend the 3000 they plan to use on computors and phones and fix up the van for goodness sakes.

      • They got rid of that van because it no longer worked, it was a gift. Nicole considered selling it when Joe was in jail but instead she filed taxes to use the money (plus monetary gifts from LDS families) to bail him out.

        The new van (a minivan too small for all of them) was also a gift, but it also has issues now and Joe the impressive homestead hubby has neither the tools nor the intellectual know how to fix it.

        So they are asking for yet another van as a gift because they are grifters and cannot fend for themselves. They are con artists to the highest degree.

  • Someone asked about the van. The minivan was given to them last year because they were without a vehicle. They couldn’t afford the repairs and registration on the large 15 passenger van so they no longer have it. The minivan is now in disrepair too. Everything they receive they sadly cannot maintain. They lack skills and tools. It’s a very sad situation and the poor children are suffering the most.

    • That’s just sad. I mean, if they’re willing to barter or pay for water for themselves (and their animals, I hope, because that pond is little more than an open sewer now), why not do the same and at least try to keep the vehicles running?

      In addition, I wonder if part of the reason that Joe apparently wants Nicole to be constantly pregnant is because then she’s too tired to disagree with him. It makes it a lot easier to descend into the gutter when there’s no opposition to the “plan”. For someone who is supposed to be responsible for the family’s success or failure in the eyes of his peers he’s lackadaisical about his role. To put it mildly.

      He’s pretty narcissistic and the attraction between individuals with NPD and those with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is strong.

      Speaking of BPD, it’s the ONE disorder that will prevent an individual from EVER having a pilot’s license.

    • Is that the van all 12 of them had to sleep in when they werent prpepared for winter? I was sad enough picturing them in their passenger van, let alone a tiny mini van! This is just so sad!

      • Yes the minivan they slept in was the red minivan you can see in pictures that Wave 3 took during the “homestead” cleanup day.

  • I just spent 10 minutes looking around the Kentucky emergency assistance pages. Even if they ended up on a waiting list for everything, the Nauglers could’ve gone into last winter in expectation of free food from WIC, grocery money from SNAP, money for kerosene and firewood from IHEAP, subsidized child care via CCAP, health care for their children via KCHIP, connection to other community services for children via HANDS, emergency housing from HUD, and straight up cash from K-TAP. It took me 10 minutes to figure this out. Plus, if they’d put the older kids in school, they would have been in a warm building with one or two cheap or free meals five days a week. That bit of information took me an extra 5 minutes to find.

    But that would require them to actually think of their children as something more than brightwork on their failboat. I was willing to give them both some slack for cluelessness until I looked around some. Letting chicken-killing dogs hang around instead of getting rid of the dogs in order to have more chickens could be chalked up to fuzzy sentimentality, but letting your only drinking water (where are their rain barrels? the place has either a well or a cistern–why aren’t they using it?) go to ruin, then getting mad at other people for protesting when you steal theirs? No, not so much. And It takes a particularly awful mindset to make your children live in conditions that people rescue animals from and then blame them when they get sick.

    • concernedcitizen68

      Agreed. However they claim they don’t want to take anything from the state (or as she said “be a whore of the state). But they have and will take donations from Churches, people they don’t know with their hard earned and taxed money. Also I don’t know if they would qualify for some of those programs without SS numbers and birth certificates for the kids. I think you have to have SS numbers to get WIC and food stamps. Some of the other programs would have helped them. But someone posted on another site that Nicole did at one time receive food stamps. This is just heresay so I don’t know it to be a fact.

      • Jenny Islander

        “Be a whore of the State?” Gosh, I don’t remember anything like that going down at my WIC appointments. Relentless chirpiness, annoying condescension, and obsession with BMI,* but I got out of there with my vouchers in hand and dignity intact.

        *Before anybody gets on the fat panic train, BMI is a measure of population averages. It is not, repeat not, totally absolutely not, an indicator of individual health. For crying out loud, your BMI can be “too high” if you are very muscular or carrying a baby.

      • Not only are they willing to take donations, but according to some statements they demanded them, then fought with, and threatened the church bishop, which led to them being kicked out of the church. Pace Elsworth their famiky friend does in fact verify that they were kicked out of their church. Of course he says its because of their different lifestyle, which seems to be the common excuse. Funny thing is Mormons are usually known for wanting to be self sustainable.

      • concernedcitizen68

        You can actually go to Gofundme and report their gofundme account as fraud. They explain what their definition of fraud is and as far as I can tell, their account story falls under that. They falsely say the children are homeschooled, which legally they aren’t. In KY you have to notify board of Ed in your county each year of your intention to homeschool each child and keep records. They are simply truant. They also say that the children were taken without appropriate steps and that’s incorrect. So if everyone would flood gofundme with this, they would lose funding and those poor people they misled would get their money back. You are also not supposed to use it if you are in any legal type trouble. And if you don’t use the money for what you state you are going to use it for (for them firstly being getting water and cabin and homestead up to speed), in a timely fashion. They have stated they are waiting for the kids “workers” to come back. This money isn’t going to benefit the kids as I don’t feel as though they will be returned with all the pics of the conditions, etc.

      • Taking money from the state would bring them and their abusive behaviors to the attention of the state. People who abuse and neglect their children do not want the state to have an excuse to take said children and by not accepting government aid they managed to stay off the radar. They also managed to do that by moving repeatedly, every time they destroyed a home or had a CPS visit the moved. They have a deceitful history, you can see when looking at Nicole’s credit report.

  • Sandy McClean Hodges

    I need to pass on some information to the writer of this story. Hopefully you get this…I shared this story of yours in a comment on a magazine’s article regarding this family. I also shared it on my fb page. Anyway…I just wanted to pass on the fact that I apparently got reported by that magazine and everything was deleted by both. I’m not upset about it…I just wanted to pass on this information. I hope I didn’t cause any problem for you. I apparently upset someone’s ‘applecart’.

  • Sandy McClean Hodges

    I need to pass on some information to the writer of this story. Hopefully you’ll read this…I shared this story of yours in a comment on a magazine’s article regarding this family. I also shared it on my fb page. Anyway…I just wanted to pass on the fact that I apparently got reported by that magazine and everything was deleted by both. I’m not upset about it…I just wanted to pass on this information. I hope I didn’t cause any problem for you. I apparently upset someone’s ‘applecart’.

  • Sandy McClean Hodges

    I shared this story in a couple places and had it deleted. Found this interesting! I apparently upset someone’s applecart!

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